Sunday, July 10, 2011

Dating early Emerson 60 cycle and DC current brass blade fans



Latest update:  9-12-17


Emerson fans are one of the most widely collected, and regarded by many as the best fans ever made.  I, for one, have always had a hard time remembering the dates that different models were made.  Here I have compiled a list of all of the 60 cycle AC brass blade fans that Emerson made from the earliest 1892 "Meston" until the last of the brass blade models, the 29646 and 71666 models.   I have also added the earlier steel blade models that replaced brass in 1931.


A few early models, c.1901, that you are not likely to encounter and which I have never seen have been omitted until I get more information.  (Those omitted Types turned out to be 133 cycle motors).  The dates given are believed to be accurate but some errors may have crept in.  I would like to update the list where possible if readers will let me know any additional or corrected information.


Photos above and below are of an 1898 Emerson "tripod" in my collection.  This is the first year of this version of the Type FI-1 12" 60 cycle fan.  Previous versions were made in the years 1895-96 that resembled the original "Meston" motors and in 1897, a version made for that year only.
The finish on this fan is original but the cage is a reproduction which has since been replaced with another reproduction made in steel as the original for this year would have been.  The white porcelain switch is unusual and the only one of two that I am aware of.  The switch is usually seen in black porcelain as shown at the bottom.
(click on photos for a larger view)



Production dates of early Emerson 60 cycle AC brass* blade fans by "Type":
* steel blades replaced brass in 1931
(last edit 3-17-18)


  Type       Years made

1892-1898 "MESTON" Alternating Current Fan Motor desk fans with bronze motor case and switch on top front of motor, infinitely variable speeds with commutator and brushes:
 M1 (Meston) 12" desk fan 16,000 alternations (133 cycles)
 M2 (Meston) 16" desk fan, 16,000 alts

1895-96 "Emerson Electric" Alternating Induction Fan Motor (not a Meston but motor is so marked) with rear switch, no brushes or commutator (mostly bronze motor cases) 

1897 "Emerson Electric" Induction with cast iron motor case and rear switch
1898-1901 style tripod desk fans:
 FI-1  7200 alternations (60 cycles) 12" fan   
 EI-1 16,000 alts (133 cycles) 16" fan
 FI-2  7200 alts. 16" fan  
 EI-2  16,000 alts, 15" fan for 16,000 alts only on c.1895-96 motors.
    
 *PI-241, PI-242 (1901-1902)  Swivel & Trunnion and Swivel frame desk fan models.

  310, 311, 320, 321, 410, 411, 420, 421, 510*, 511*, 520*, 521*, 610, 611, 620, 621  (1901)  These are shown in an Emerson data sheet but I have never seen any of them.  (*) are 133 cycle fan motors.

  710*, 711*, 720*, 721*, 810*, 811*, 820*, 821* (1902-04), all are 133 cycles and most are rarely seen.

  910,  911,  920,  921 (1902-04)  Swivel frame desk fan (911 and 921 are wall bracket fans)

1010, 1011 (1902-05), 1020 (1902), 1021 (1902)  Swivel & Trunnion desk fan (1011, 1021 are bracket fans)

1120 (1903-04)   16"  Swivel frame desk fan

1220, 1221 (1903-05)   16"  S&T, 1221 is a bracket fan     (1210, 1215 were these made?)

1310, 1311, 1320, 1321 (1903-05)  12" Swivel & Trunnion 6 blade residence fan, large diameter motor.  1311 and 1321 are bracket fans.

1500 (1909)  8" Swivel & Trunnion, "Convertable Ball" added to base for wall mounting.  First cage badge

1510 (1906-09), 1520 (1906-07)  12" & 16" S&T

1610 (1906-07), 1620 (1906)    12" & 16" S&T, 6 blade fan, large motor

1820 (1908-09)  16" Swivel & Trunnion

2010 (1908-09) 12" S&T 6 blade fan, large motor    2010a (1908) 12" S&T 6 blade fan, smaller motor similar in size to Trojan 5610 motor.

2210, 2220 (1909)  12" & 16", Emerson's first oscillator, two bearing motor with set screw blade

(For fans listed below the first two digits are the series, the middle digit is the frequency (0 for DC, 2 for 25 cycles, 3/30 cycles, 4/40, 5/50, 6/60 cycles), the fourth number is the number of blades and the last number is half of the diameter of the blade (5 is a 9" blade on brass models but a 10" fan on later models, probably that use steel blades).  Note: only 60 cycle models are listed below but other frequencies were made in most Types.

11644 (1910),  11646 (1910-11),  11648 (1910-11), 11666 (1910)   Swivel & Trunnion, first series with cage badge other than Type 1500 

12646, 12648, 12666 (1910-11)  second design oscillator

14644 (1911-12 or 13?),  14646 (1912-13?),  14648 (1912-13?),  14666 (1911)  Swivel & Trunnion, step base replaces earlier ornate base

15644 (1911-12)  Bedpost fan similar to 14644 but with bracket to attach to bedpost, 1 speed

16646 (1912-13?), 16648 (1912-13?), 16666 (1912-13?)  Oscillator, second style gearbox

17666  (1912 )  Swivel & Trunnion

19644 (1914-15 or 16), 19645 (1916-19), 19646 (1914-18), 19648 (1914-18), 19666 (1914-17)  Swivel & Trunnion.  Steel cages in 1918.  Change from cast hub to stamped hub blade during production.

21645 ((1915-16),  21646 (1914-16),  21648 (1914-16),  21666 (1914-16)  Oscillator with new, third type of gearbox, last to use the step base.  Still cast hub blades.

24645 (1917-19),  24646 (1917-18),  24648 (1917-19),  24666 (1917-18),  24668 (1917-18)  Oscillator, new cone shaped base (except for 24645 which used step base with thicker bottom flange), steel cages for 1918.   Change from cast hub to stamped hub blade during production.

26645 (1920-22),  26646 (1919-22),  26648 (1919-22)  Non-oscillator, modified cone base with felt base plate.  Steel cages from here on forward.

27645 (1920-22),  27646 (1919-22),  27666 (1919-22),  27648 (1919-22),  27668 (1920-22)  Oscillator

28645 (1922-23),  28646 (1922-1937),  28648 (1922-23)  Non-oscillator

29645 (1922-25?), 29646 (1922-1936), 29666 (lg. motor)(1922 only),  29648 (1922-c.1929),  29668 (1922-at least 1926, probably through '27)  Oscillator  (71666 replaces 29666 in 1923)

30648  (1922 only)  Non-oscillator 


71666 (1923-1935)  Oscillator, small motor replaces previous 29666 large motor on 6 blade oscillators

72646 (1938-41), replaced 28646, non-oscillator

73646 (1937-41), 73648 (1928-1939), 73668 (1928-1935)  Oscillator

Notes:  (from discussions with Bill Voigt and other sources)
1. Speed numbers OFF  1  2  or OFF  1  2   3  for 1911 and before, changed to OFF  3  2  1 for 1912 and later with 1 the being the high speed, 2 medium, and 3 low speed on all models.
2. Stamped blade hub replaces cast hub on last of 19xxx and 24xxx Types  (21xxx are cast hub)
3. Polished brass blades replaced with dull finish (gold paint) on brass blades starting in 1921 for 26xxx and 27xxx series
4. Pyramid badge (Built to Last) c.1926  (registered June 9, 1925)
5. Improved Parker blade c.1927-29,  12" before the 16"?
6. Gold painted hub in 1922 replaces black painted hub immediately after earliest 29646
7. Steel blades in 1931 replace brass blades
8. Last mechanical start switch 1910-1911 (11xxx and 12xxx types).
9. Emerson "date code" first used c.1929 (possibly c.1922 with a stamped number) on full grade Emersons and  c.1923 on Emerson Junior line.  Add "20" to the one or two digit number on motor tag or cage badge to get
    the date the fan was built.
10. First  "force feed lubrication system" using spiral grooves in rotor 1928 on 73648 & 73668 16" models only. 
    Force Feed lubrication added to all 12" and 16" Parker and overlapping blade models in 1937
11. First capacitor in base 1937 on 73xxx and 77xxx types
12. First overlapping blades 1935, 77xxx type
13. First Emerson Junior in 1922, 9" steel blade painted gold, switch added to Junior models in 1925, oscillator in                                     1926
14. 10 foot cord and plug provided on all fans c.1916-17 (and probably other years)
15. First carrying handles on top of motor on 12" and 16" models in 1917 for oscillators, not sure about stationary.
16.  12xxx and 16xxx power cord came out back.  c.1915 headwire outlet on base and power cord inlet moved to 45 deg. to right of center for better headwire routing when fan is wall mounted.
17.   Emerson letter prefixes on motor tags as follows; compiled by Bill Voigt:
  A    27xxx plus early 28, 29xxx  maybe some early ones without the suffix & 27645  All A have screw-in oilers.  Forged looking high handles.  Black porcelain switch.
  K    By 1924-25 and shortly after 28xxx and 29xxx types came out.  New motor winding/speed coil, switch base changed from ceramic to composition, hubs painted gold.  Press-in oilers, low "screen door" handle,  cage struts still with extra bends (not twists).
  N    c.1927, Pyramid badge, straight cage struts on late N, higher rolled steel handle in use
  T   All had pyramid badges, straight struts,  Improved Parker blades, 12" version about a year before 16" blade improvements.   Headwire access plate added sometime in the T prefix.   Late T or early W flared out larger oil cap.
  W  All had headwire access plates, composition round switch on early W
(blank space for serial number)
(new tag with no place for serial number)
  AK   1937 first capacitor motors.  73646 AK were the first
-First date code:  Bill has seen a "9" for 1929   He's possibly seen an "8"

*PI-241 was previously thought to have been produced 1899-1900.  Information from Emerson catalogs 
    places the dates at 1901-02 with the auto-start models introduced in 1902.  For more information on 
    dating PI-241s see The Fan Collector magazine (AFCA), February 2001, v.14, no.1

 Trojan  The Emerson Trojan line of fans was Emerson's less expensive line and used a two bearing motor instead of the single bearing used on the top of the line Emerson fans.
 Type       Years made
5110,  5111,  5120,  5121 (1904-05)  S&T, pancake motor, non-oscillator, 4 blade fan
5210,  5211 (1904-05)  S&T, non-oscillator, pancake motor,  6 blade fan
5310,  5320 (1906-09)  S&T, non-oscillator (rear bearing cap only on 1909 models?)
5410 (1906-07)  S&T, non-oscillator, thick pancake motor,  6 blade fan
5610 (1908-09)  S&T, non-oscillator,  6 blade fan
51646,  51648 (1910-11)  S&T, non-oscillator, replaced 5310, 5320 (all have rear bearing caps.)
52646,  52648 (1910-11)  First Trojan oscillator
53644 (1911-12)  8" all brass non-oscillator, stamped blade, three speeds
53646,  53648 (1912)  Non-oscillator, three speeds, step base replaces ornate base, "Trojan"cage badge.
54646,  54648 (1912)  Oscillator , step base, three speeds, "Trojan" cage badge


 Emerson Direct Current brass blade* fans
(for standard voltages- other models were made for other voltages)
* steel blades replaced brass in 1931

Latest edit:  1-20-16
 Type     Years made
 1015     (1905)   12"    Swivel & Trunnion desk fan
 1016     (1905)   12"    S&T bracket fan
 1025     (1905)   16"    S&T desk
 1026     (1905)   16"    S&T bracket
 1115     (1906-09)  12"   swivel & trunnion desk
 1125     (1906-09)  16"   S&T desk
 1215     (1908-09)  12"   residence (6 blade fan) S&T desk
11044    (1912-13)    8"   S&T desk
11046    (1910-12)  12"   S&T desk
11048    (1910-12)  16"   S&T desk
11066    (1910-12)  12"   residence S&T desk
14046    (1913)   12"   S&T desk
14048    (1913)   16"   S&T desk
14066    (1913)   12"   residence S&T desk
15044    (1912)     8"   bedstead S&T
16046    (1912-13)  12"   hinged oscillator
16048    (1912-13)  16"   hinged oscillator
16066    (1912-13)  12"   hinged residence oscillator
18046    (1913-14)  12"   ventilating fan
18048    (1913-14)  16"   ventilating fan
19044    (1914)     8"    convertible S&T desk
19045    (1917-19)   9"   S&T desk
19046    (1914-19?)   12"    conv. S&T desk
19048    (1914-19?)   16"    conv. S&T desk
19066    (1914-19?)   12"    conv. residence S&T desk
21046    (1914)   12"    hinged oscillator
21048    (1914)   16"    hinged oscillator
21066    (1914)   12"    hinged residence oscillator
23045    (1915-16)   9"   hinged oscillator
23046    (1915-16)  12"  hinged oscillator
23048    (1915-16)  16"  hinged oscillator
23066    (1915-16)  12"  hinged residence oscillator
24045    (1917-19)   9"   hinged oscillator
24046    (1917-19)  12"  hinged oscillator
24048    (1917-19)  16"  hinged oscillator
24066    (1917)     12"   hinged residence oscillator
26045    (1920-23)    9"  non-oscillator 
26046    (1919-24)  12"  non-oscillator
26048    (1920-23)  16"  non-oscillator
27045    (1920-22)    9"  oscillator
27046    (1919-23)  12"  oscillator  (last ball motor)
27048    (1919-24)  16"  oscillator  (last ball motor)
28045    (1924-1930)    9"  non-oscillator
28046    (1925-1939)     12"   non-oscillator
29045    (1923-28+?)    9"  oscillator
29046    (1924-28+?)  12"  oscillator
29048    (1924-28+?)  16"  oscillator
71045    (c.1929-1937)  10"  oscillator
73045    (1938)   10" oscillator
75046    (c.1930-1939)  12" oscillator
75048    (c.1930-1939)  16" oscillator
76045    (? -1937)  10" non-oscillator
78045    (1938)   10" non-oscillator

Notes:
-All DC Emerson fan motors have two bearings
-Parker blades are used on all DC motors and have a set screw to hold blade to shaft.
-12" and 16" have ball shaped motors through the 27xxx models.
-12" and 16" fans have more or less cylindrically shaped motors after the 27xxx models.
-8" and 9" motors are small and cylindrical shaped.
-1930 was the last year for brass blades which were painted with gold paint from c.1921
-Steel blades replaced brass on the 1931 models.
-The last "trunnion" mounted motors were the 19xxx models.









PI-241 swivel base, 1900-1901
1894 Emerson M1 tripod



The PI-241 came as a single speed swivel base and a two speed swivel & trunnion base.  All PI-241 models used an aluminum motor tag that was also used on the last of the tripod fans which were still sold when the PI-241 was introduced.  With the following Types 910 (swivel) and 1010 (swivel & trunnion) the motor tag was changed to nickeled brass.



The page to the right and those below are from an Emerson catalog dated Jan. 1, 1903.  Additional pricing pages were in the catalog for 16,000 alt. (133 cycle high frequency) and ceiling fans.

Note the three voltages that each fan was offered in.  In the days before the fans were convertible from desk to bracket fans beginning with the Type 1510 a separate bracket Type model was offered differing only in the base of the fan motor.


                      Click on page to enlarge.


Emerson had a design advantage over their competitors in their use of a long, single 1/2" hardened steel bearing in place of the usual two bearings, front and rear of the motor.  While some other fans used a single bearing it was not of the same size nor hardened steel as Emerson used.  The long term advantage of the Emerson design was a very long life for the bearing.  The less expensive line of Trojan fans did not use this single bearing but, instead, used two bearings, front and rear, in the motor.












Wiring Diagrams for Some Emerson Fan Models
Thank you Tom Newcityl.   Please note that these are the oscillating models but the
 corresponding non-oscillators use the same wiring diagrams.  Added 9-12-17





23 comments:

  1. In your catalog, I see that if you order 10 or more 1310 residence fans you only pay $13.00 each. Therefore I would like to order twenty.

    In reality, great blog, you need to add more photos of the various models when you get a chance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you Fred for your comments and wanting to order some of our fine Type 1310 Emerson fans. Due to unprecedented demand we are sold out of that model. May I offer you the same cost for 10 each of our current models? They are greatly improved with colorful plastic blades, a revised guard that meets the current OSHA safety standards, a stamped steel motor housing with permanently lubricated bushings, and a molded plastic line cord and plug. I'm sure you will find the changes a great improvement. I do have a lot of information that I would like to add to this blog; I shouldn't delay making additions any longer and do have some updated information for the existing blogs.
      Steve

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  2. I have a list number 3000 and can't seem to find any info to date it.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Ben, it is difficult to date many R&M fans due to there not being much in the way of catalogs and other information about them. Emerson, Westinghouse and GE made it much easier when it comes to dating. Your List 3000 is probably around 1920. I think R&M fans used a "wrapped" cage construction through 1918, possibly a year later then went to welded cage construction. The 3000 that I had was welded and the oscillating version is the List 3600, both 9" fans (I think but I see some listed in the AFCA gallery as 10" fans). I would go with early 1920s and that is probably as close as we can get. Nice fans they are.

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  4. I have an Emerson 73548 which I do not see listed. What can you tell me about this fan?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Jeff, I have been following your posts about your Emerson on the AFCA forum. It's very simple, you have a 50 cycle "version" of the common Emerson 73648. 50 cycle fans are not too rare but not seen very often either. They will run ok on our 60 cycle current although you may want to raise the voltage some. A variac will usually put out about 135-140 volts plugged into a 120/125 volt circuit. That additional voltage should help your ran run a little better but give it a try if you have a variac and see if the motor gets warmer at the higher voltage. Running at 120/125 volts will not harm your 50 cycle fan. The reason you don't see your fan in my blog is because I only included 60 cycle Emerson fan motors being as how they are, by far, the most common frequency. The middle number in Emerson's TYPE designation tells us the frequency; 0 for DC, 2 for 25 cycles, 3 for 30, 5 for 50, 6 for 60, etc. There may be some special frequency Emersons made.

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  5. hello I have a Emerson 14648 model fan I acquired it already disassembled but it appears to all be there and seemingly functional the base has a large piece broken out of it turning it into more of a crescent than a circular base I was just curious if you had any thoughts to possible value

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hi Rod, the 16" 14648 is a nice fan from 1912 and probably 1913. As to the value I can't help you there due to the broken base and not having seen your fan. Condition and originality or quality of a restoration plays a large part in value so photos are a must. Even then I am not very good on values. Watching similar fans on eBay or checking SOLD LISTINGS can be a good way to find values. For the base I would suggest you place a wanted ad for a replacement base on the Antique Fan Collectors Association website on the Buy-Sell-Trade forum. No charge to do that and adding a photo of your broken base and fan would be helpful. Some fan collectors have successfully repaired broken bases from those Emersons that, not infrequently, have a crescent shaped piece broken out of the base due to improper packing. Yes, cast iron is very fragile. Either the existing piece broken from the base cane be brazed or welded back on then finishing done to blend it into the base or the missing piece can be filled in with epoxy or JB Weld. That takes time and some knowledge but the results can made a broken part look nearly good as new. Search the "pre-1950 forum" for any posts that have been made on fixing broken bases. I know that there have been several posts over the years. Good luck with your big old Emerson.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hi,
    I've got a 12" Emerson No. 172213 Type 12646 that I'm restoring. The poor thing has survived being submerged at some point in it's life. It was being used as a doorstop to hold open a barn door at an estate sale/auction of an old farm. I've managed to get most of it apart with the exception of removing the stator winding, and centrifugal switch. It appears that the bearing shaft has to be removed to remove the switch, is this correct?

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi Larry, the Emerson 12646 is a scarce and very nice earlier Emerson and I wish you luck on your restoration. I have little experience in working deeply into fans but this thread should be of some help to you:
    http://www.afcaforum.com/view_topic.php?id=18376&forum_id=1&highlight=1510+Emerson+Centrifugal

    You will need to remove the rotor to get at the centrifugal start switch. There is a nut of sorts on the front of the rotor bearing after you get the fan blade off which, in itself, can be quite a chore. If you don't know how to do that get back to me; better yet use the CONTACT ME form near the top right of this blog and I will get back to you. Once the rotor is removed you'll see the switch in the back of the motor held to the motor housing with three screws. Remove them as a first step. The switch itself with the red fiber insulator discs may be hard to remove. I think it kind of gets "glued" to the motor and has to be carefully persuaded or pried out. The switch leads are attached to the stator (motor windings) and can be unsoldered or removed along with the stator. I hope this helps and let me know via the Contact Form if you have other problems or questions. The AFCA website has a search function that should give you some more info. The bearing shaft, by the way, is pressed into the motor housing and should not be removed.
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
  9. Thank you for making this information available. Before I found this site I was taking apart my sister's Emerson 73648 using the 'look at it and figure it out' method. I thought the fan blade had a welch plug covering the nut holding it to the shaft which could be removed with hammer and chisel. It was a surprise when the fan blade come off leaving the hub on but it did open up new methods for getting the hub off. Without the blade the front cover comes right off. There are 2 holes in the armature which will accept a pin wrench or homemade holding tool. With the armature properly held a vise grip or pipe wrench should remove the hub as long as I remember about the LEFT HAND THREADS.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am not sure exactly what you did when you say that the fan blade came off leaving the hub on as the blade is permanently attached to the hub (of the blade). Maybe you meant by HUB what is the front part of the rotor. I hope you got it all ok. Emerson blade removal can be tricky and, at time, extremely difficult. Emersons are great fans with some unique construction. If you want you can contact me via the CONTACT ME at the top of this blog. I will send you my email so you can send photos if I can be of help.

      Delete
  10. I have recently got a pretty ice 29646 was wondering if there is a positive way to find the year it was made any help would be appreciated thanks

    ReplyDelete
  11. A good question Eddie and it's sometimes possible to accurately date Emersons. From 1929 Emerson started to include what we call a "date code" on the motor tag of seemingly all of their fans and continued into the 1950s. Look for a small two digit (1929 was a single digit) in the lower right corner (or in other locations on other models) and add 20 to that date code number. The first date code on the larger fans, 12 and 16", was "9" so that would have been made in 1929. So how do you date an Emerson made before 1929? Their JUNIOR models had a date code earlier starting maybe with a "1" but I have seen a "3" which would be 1923. The larger fans had no date code. In 1925 or 26 the new "Built to Last" cage badge was introduced so that will get you closer. Before that I don't know of a way to closely date the larger Emerson fans. Other changes over the years such as the change from the low "screen door" carrying handle to a higher handle are hard to impossible to date.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I am restoring a Emerson type 28646, #K70888. Where can I find a wiring diagram

    ReplyDelete
  13. This diagram is from a very knowledgeable Emerson restorer from the AFCA. Be sure to use the 29656 diagram (the 28646 is identical but is the non-oscillating version of the 29646). Earlier Emersons used a different wiring schematic so be sure to pick the appropriate diagram.

    I have posted the diagram at the end of my Emerson blog posts above.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I have a type 73646 AK-G, can you tell me what the AK-G is?

    ReplyDelete
  15. I am not certain but I believe that the G at the end of your type number refers to "government" and would be a fan with two bearings unlike most Emersons which had a single bearing. If the blade on your fan has a set screw that is what it is, a made for the government with separate bearing in the front and in the rear of the motor. Also look in the front for an oil cup or an oil port to oil the front bearing. If there is one it's a government fan.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How about the AK? I just bought this fan today at a antique store liquidation sale and know nothing about the fan other than it looks and runs great.

      Delete
    2. Again, an educated guess after looking at a number of Emerson catalogs posted on the AFCA website (for members only). The 73646 was a successor in 1937 that replaced the old 29646 last offered in 1936. The 73646 gained the force feed lubrication feature that the 16" 63648 had had for a few years. The 73646 AK continued through at least 1939 (don't have access to a 1940 catalog) and that seems to be the end of that model other than a chrome plated version in 1914, also 73646 AK. The replacement for the 73646 was the 79646 AQ in 1942. The best I can tell is that the 73646 kept the old Parker blades from the later 29646s but the 79646 had a very different style of blade. The catalogs don't mention that I saw what the AK or AQ or other letters were for but it could be various changes in specifications and, on some models, possibly the color variant. Good workhouse fans of the later 1930s.

      Delete
  16. Hi I have a type 94626, I can't find any info it, can u help year made, it still has sticker underneath,

    ReplyDelete
  17. I have 94626, have any info on it I can't find it, thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was unaware of what your Type 9626 was but found it as the last entry in John Witt's book ELECTRIC FANS. That type was made in 1955 and was a Northwind 12" oscillator, bronze finish. That is all the information given. You might find more information on the Antique Fan Collectors Post-1950 forum if you post with your request.

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I welcome comments, corrections. or new information.